Talk:Dinah Laurel Lance (New Earth)
Age So, how old is she supposed to be if her mom was active in WWII? :Roygbiv666 03:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC) :It's not polite to ask a lady's age. The Paradox 04:24, 29 September 2008 (UTC) ::According to Wikipedia:Timeline of the DC Universe, she started her career around age 19, and that was supposedly 16 years ago. So, she was born in 1973. Her mother started her career around 1940. Assuming she started at 19, she was born in 1921. She retired in 1951, age 30. If she gave birth in 1973, that's shen she was 52! Thank you, Ian Karkull. As time goes by there's going to be a massive gap between the retirement of the JSA in 1951 and the Modern Age of Heroes. Just a big gap. ::Roygbiv666 12:16, 29 September 2008 (UTC) Just for posterity Can we get some kind of discussion on when the first appearance really is and why? From what I gather, Dinah Lance's first appearance was originally JLA 219, and then was retconned to have been JLA 75. Yeah? - Hatebunny (talk) 16:16, March 12, 2013 (UTC) :We chronicle from historical perspective. We have had a discussion on retconned characters once before, though it was a substantially smaller issue. (Concerning a cameo appearance of Earth-Two Wonder Woman in the JSA in Secret Origins). That was agreed that it should remain the original character, with the retcon explained in a note, IIRC. I'm not sure on the specifics on the retcon here, I'd have to check that. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:41, March 12, 2013 (UTC) Here's the thing. Her first appearance is a tough call because until 1983 everyone treated this character as being the same character from the Golden Age. In JLA #219-220, it was revealed that the original Black Canary had died behind the scenes in JLA #74 and that the Black Canary who joined the JLA was in fact her daughter with the mystically-superimposed memories of the original. In my opinion, it would make no sense to then list the original Black Canary as a cast member of stories (in the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series for example) in which she, from the new perspective did not participate. I see this as a different situation than something like the Earth-One Hawkman and Hawkwoman being replaced with the Earth-Two characters in Post-Crisis JLA history, because technically this retcon didn't alter any of the established history. It only revealed new details that cast the previous decade-and-a-half of stories in a new light. So, to sum up, Justice League of America #75 is her first appearance. :-) DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 17:19, March 12, 2013 (UTC) On the subject of Green Lantern/Green Arrow, I'd definitely have to agree that the Black Canary there is - as far as Canon is concerned, the same Black Canary who appeared in Mike Grell's Green Arrow series of the 80s, but in most cases, I wouldn't want to go back and change anyone ELSE's first appearance because of a retcon. This case does seem a little different, though, because they kind of rebooted her character. - Hatebunny (talk) 17:26, March 12, 2013 (UTC) :Why would it make no sense to list the original Black Canary? It was an explicit character point; after the death of Larry Lance, she came to Earth-One on Superman's invitation. That's when she also acquired her proto-Canary Cry. Once of earth-One, she fell in love with Oliver Queen of Earth-One. She was definitively the Dinah Drake of Earth-Two back then. Since we cover things from a historical perspective, it feels wrong to claim she's a different character. :Until I've had a chance to read #219-220 and judge for myself, I'm saying no to the change. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 17:34, March 12, 2013 (UTC) Fair enough, but how is the retcon reconciled? JLA #220 explicitly states that Dinah Sr. dies on Earth-Two and never joins the JLA. All later DC canon (until the Crisis at least) acknowledges this. The original Who's Who has two Black Canary entries, both of which relate this history. I understand the historical perspective idea, but if we take that idea a little farther it seems disingenuous to have pre-1961 comic pages that list appearances by Earth-Two characters (or Earth-One characters for that matter) as the Multiverse is a Silver Age creation. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 17:53, March 12, 2013 (UTC) :Okay, I've read it... and ugh, I'm on the fence. I would like to know what others think of this before we three do something with it. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 18:41, March 12, 2013 (UTC) ::I'm off the fence. All of it is Laurel. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 23:17, March 14, 2013 (UTC) Okay. Nobody else has objected, so I'm going ahead and changing the first appearance, creators and debut date DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 02:24, March 15, 2013 (UTC) I must admit that I was confused that Laurel or Black Canary II was listed in every issue of the old comics. In the stories they always refer to her as Dinah Drake. I guess this should be noted somewhere that the wiki articles is based on the retcon made later. -- CheatCat (talk) 10:19, March 11, 2016 (UTC) Should she be called Black Canary or Black Canary II? -- CheatCat (talk) 14:31, March 29, 2016 (UTC) :Just call her Black Canary. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 14:33, March 29, 2016 (UTC)